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No Jacket Required – Phil Collins

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About This Episode

We’re turning back the dial to 1985, when Phil Collins ruled the charts with his smash-hit album No Jacket Required. Packed with iconic tracks like “Sussudio” and “One More Night,” this record didn’t just dominate radio, it helped define the sound of an era. We’ll dig into the making of the album, its massive commercial success, and why it still sparks conversation (and maybe a little air-drumming) nearly four decades later.

(May contain some explicit language.)

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Show Notes

TRANSCRIPT

Jon Welcome back, Gen X Grown Up Podcast listener to this backtrack edition of the Gen X Grown Up Podcast. I am John. Joining me as always, of course, is Moe. Hey, man.
Mo Hey, how’s it going?
Jon You know, it’s not a show without George. you doing, and George?
George Hey, how’s it going guys?
Jon In this episode, we’re turning back the dial to 1985 when Phil Collins ruled the charts with his smash hit album, No Jacket Required. Packed with iconic tracks like Susudio and One More Night, this record didn’t just dominate radio. It helped define the sound of an era.
Jon We’ll dig into the making of the album, its massive commercial success, and why it still sparks conversation and maybe little air drumming nearly four decades later. This is one I know we said on the last episode we were looking forward to for a while.
Jon George was watching the calendar. When did 85 roll around so we could get to no jacket required?
George Mm-hmm.
Mo ccccc
Jon ah We’re going walk through this entire album, every every every track on the album and talk about that. But first… It’s time for some fourth listener email. Anytime one of our fourth listeners drops us a line, we like to feature them here. And the fourth listener this episode is Joseph W. The subject line of his email is malls.
Jon Okay. Here’s what Joseph has to say. Is that funny? Malls. Okay.
Mo Just when you said it was funny, malls.
Jon Okay. okay Having moved from Chicago to Dallas, Texas, I noticed the difference immediately when I went to the mall for the first time here in Dallas.
Jon Now, similar to Moe, I have no recollections of any mall in the city of Chicago.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon Instead, we always went to a specific store, whether be Sears, the Dime Store, etc., when we moved to Texas and went to the Sears, etc. Sears, the Dime Store, etc. When we moved here to Texas and went to the Sears store, I noticed there were other stores attached to it, but my parents would not go in there because all those stores are too expensive.
George Hehehe.
Jon It definitely was a totally different culture. Eventually, I did get to go in the mall. Thank you for bringing back good memories. So another victim of the big city no malls, Mo.
Mo I know. I’m telling you. There’s many of us out there.
Jon Yeah. So what are the stores that are outside of outside of Sears that are too expensive? it’s What’s out there?
Mo What’s all the specialty stores, right?
Jon Claire’s?
Mo Don’t they have lot?
Jon I guess…
Mo You know, I’m just guessing.
Jon Yeah.
Mo I have no idea.
Jon Hot topic. Yeah. I always thought of Sears as the expensive store. Maybe ah thought backwards. Anyway. All right. Hey, Joseph, thank you for writing in. We’re glad you enjoyed our backtrack all about the mall experience.
Jon Fourth listener, if you would like your email featured here on the show, you know it is drop dead easy. All you have to do is fire off an email to podcast at genxgrownup.com.
Mo Thank you.
Jon Read every single email, of course, and most of them eventually make the show. All right. We get back from this quick break. We are going to drop No Jacket Required onto the turntable. Give it a listen.
Jon Stick around.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon tell you, in high school, if you caught me cruising in my pickup, going downtown to go to the movies or something, odds were pretty solid that I had at least one Phil Collins cassette in rotation in my cassette player in the truck.
Jon And one of them that we’re talking about here today is probably the one that i remember the best because it came out right at the peak for me in high school. February 18th, 1985, Phil Collins released No Jacket Required in North America.
Mo easy
Jon And there are so many. it’s It’s one of those weird albums that like every track I remember well. It’s not like I’ve never heard this one or some weird track. They were all they all had singles. They all had radio rotation. It’s really crazy.
Jon ah Now we’re going to talk in this episode. No Jacket Required is a huge album. to talk about how huge it was here just a second. But In this particular podcast, we’re talking about the one we remember as Gen Xers, the original 10 tracks that came out on the LP and the cassette in 1985.
Jon Now, there have been additional releases. There was a CD release that had bonus track. There have been remasters that have more bonus tracks and added more things. We’re going to talk about the 10 original tracks on Phil Collins, No Jacket Required.
Jon And let me tell you, those 10 are enough to fill the room. They are some great, great, great music on this album.
Mo Oh, sorry.
George Sorry.
Mo Let’s do a second, George.
Jon It’s okay.
Mo It looked like you were ready to say something, so…
Jon That’s okay.
George i was
Jon you need need need ah
George I was trying to get my stuff together for the individual tracks.
Jon You need better.
Mo Okay.
Jon oh I got you.
Mo I can jump here real quick.
Jon You need.
Mo But yeah, John, I mean, absolutely.
Jon yeah
Mo freaking lutely I mean, this… Yeah, he said, actually, it’s like I knew Phil Collins from Genesis, you know, and then when this came about, it’s like I think this was the album that really just put him in my head as far as his music after Genesis.
Jon Most speechless.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo I know he had other albums before it, but this is when I think that just really kind of took it over the top for me.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Jon For me too, yeah.
George Yeah. it’s a great album. no question. It’s got a ton of great songs. It was when it was in his prime, uh, as a single artist. I think, uh, face value was what really declared his single status.
Mo Mm hmm.
George Um, and then, yeah, uh, especially within the air tonight on that album.
Jon Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.
George But then you get this album, which has an interesting history. It’s got the, the title for this album came from an actual incident that Phil Collins experienced.
Mo Oh, really?
George So,
Jon Oh.
George He was at a place called the Pump Room Restaurant in Chicago of Illinois. It’s all, you know, kind of odd that we had that ah fan mail earlier about Chicago.
Mo really? Oh.
Jon Yeah, right. Yeah.
George um But he was there with ah Led Zeppelin’s lead singer, Robert Plant, ah who ended up getting denied entry into the restaurant because he didn’t have a dinner jacket on.
Jon Oh.
George So, of course…
Mo oh.
George No jacket required ended up being, you know, his kind of homage to that situation because Colin said in an interview later on that that was the angriest he has ever been in his life.
George Now, all the things that that man has been through, the fact that Robert Plant couldn’t get into a restaurant was angriest he’s ever been is kind of surprising, but still…
Mo really
Jon Right.
George i think ah I think it’s interesting to find out when albums have titles that don’t seem to come from anywhere in particular, like they’re not named after a particular song on the album maybe, or they don’t have some obvious origin story.
Mo Right.
George To me, that was very interesting when I found that out doing the research for this podcast that, yeah, just one of his buddies couldn’t go into the restaurant with him because he didn’t have a dinner jacket on. And that’s how this album got its title.
Mo I wonder if the person like looks back and been like, you know, I should have fired that guy. i mean he didn’t let the leasing of Led Zeppelin
Jon Right.
George Right.
Jon What’s wrong with you? Let this guy in. These are rock stars.
George he
Jon They they make our restaurant look higher cachet, right? So it’s like a response to that. Like we couldn’t get in because there was a barrier. This album, no jacket required. Come on in.
Jon You’re welcome.
Mo Right.
Jon It’s almost like a flip of that. That’s cool. I didn’t know the story behind that.
Mo Yeah, it’s very cool.
Jon Yeah. oh You know, you, where did, where did we talk about for the show or it was the end? We were talking about this episode last time, but you talked about the little bit the cover art. You said back when all you had to do was throw your face on a record.
Jon Yeah.
George yeah
Jon So this is, you know it’s funny. This album is again, and I’m sure anyone looking at this episode, you can probably look at the album art that’s on the cover of this episodes. Fuck, what are we trying to say?
George Thumbnail.
Jon Yeah, thank you. I’m trying to think. If you’re listening to this episode, you can probably look on the, just the special thumbnail for this episode. And there’s probably an image of the album cover and it’s just Phil Collins face. And this time it’s kind of orange and he just keeps doing that.
Mo Yeah. Yeah.
Jon So he had just facial closeups start like face value, just his big face, like really big. Like you can’t even see his hair, just like his, from his lips up to the top of his eyes, really big face.
Mo yeah
Jon ah This one was like lit up red or orange to emphasize. It was hot uptempo nature of this album. So it’s kind of a hotter one. There was an intermediary. It was the middle album. um Face value was, was that, but seriously, whatever. There’s one in the middle. It’s like a blue and it shot of his face.
Jon It just kept being shots of Phil Collins face. And that’s all he needed for albums. And apparently it was enough.
Mo I mean, the first one kind of makes sense. Face value. Here’s my face.
Jon Of course, of course it does.
Mo Right. And maybe he just said, you know what? Let’s just go with that as a theme. Just, you know, it’s works out to put as much thought into it.
Jon it It worked.
Mo Easily recognizable album cover. You know, you can see it from across the room.
Jon Right. Yep. And look, Phil Collins’ face was clearly selling. So i was like, let’s do that again. That makes sense. We’ve learned that YouTube. If that thumbnail works, do another the thumbnail like that.
George Right.
Jon So album cover is kind of the thumbnail for those records.
Mo Yeah. And speaking of selling, I mean, this obviously we said this album did extremely well. um It was Collins highest selling album and it sold like 12 million copies by 2001.
Jon Nice. Wow.
Mo We’re get that special diamond status when they used to actually count albums that you sold, you know, which they don’t do anymore because that’s how the artist made money is by selling albums, you know.
George Right.
Jon Full records.
Mo So ah but yeah, 12 million copies. That’s just crazy.
George Yeah.
Jon Mm-hmm. Yeah.
George Yeah. It was, it was a obvious for obvious reasons.
Jon It’s great.
George When we go through the tracks, you guys will understand why it sold 12 million albums, but the other way that artists make real money because they don’t really get a ton of money from those albums.
Jon Mm-hmm. Right.
George They have to go on tour quite often in order to make their real money.
Mo Yeah.
George Uh, the no jacket required world tour actually ended up ending during the um Live Aid concerts. And if you remember, ah Phil Collins, he performed at both Wembley, jumped on the Concord and went and performed at JFK Stadium as part of that ah concert package.
Mo Oh, yeah, yeah.
Mo Mm hmm. Right.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo I mean, tell me about that.
George So it was it was interesting to me that this tour ended up tying in directly to that. I read a quote where he said it was just really this weird happenstance. He didn’t have any ah plans on being in the live aid concerts, but then, you know, circumstances, his tour ending right at the right moment and everything just made it possible for him to not only do the one in England, but also come to the U S and do the same thing over here. So it’s very cool. And there’s videos on YouTube of both of his performances back to back. So, I mean, the guy,
George He went through the ringer just like Queen did on that day.
Mo Yeah,
Jon Yeah, you know it’s it makes me think, probably we saw at Live Aid, we saw Phil Collins at his his most polished, because he’d just come off a tour and polished this set of songs, right?
Mo it’s true.
Jon He was really in his groove, so just accidentally well-prepared for Live Aid makes it just ah an extra extra interesting kind of weave in that fabric of this musical history.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon I love that.
Mo Yeah. And one of the facts I found out doing research on this was like, they actually had, you know, sting Peter Gabriel doing background vocals on some of the songs, which I had no idea, to be honest, until I read about it here recently.
Mo And then, you know, kind of,
Jon They didn’t advertise it. You’d think you’d advertise that, right?
Mo Yeah, they really don’t. Yeah, I think back in the day, you look at the jacket cover, and you know, I’m sure it says somewhere in backup vocals, you know, staying, you know, just as small letters.
Jon Right.
Mo But yeah, they really didn’t make a big deal of it. But I guess that it seemed like the British singer community must have been pretty tight back then that they could just grab these people.
George Well, I mean, Steam was doing background vocals on everybody’s stuff. He was doing Phil Collins.
Mo That’s true.
George He was doing Dire Straits. It was like, I don’t have my own band anymore. Might as well go sing on other people’s shit, apparently.
Mo Yeah.
George So I guess he was just bored or something. ah we might as well round out the segment with just ah the last little bit of numbers. So this album was so popular that it hit number one on 12 different charts.
George I went and counted it up 12 different charts that year, including of course the U S billboard 200 album chart.
Jon Mm.
Mo Wow.
Jon Not surprised.
Mo Right.
George So, i mean, to hit number one on that many places across the globe is just crazy.
Jon Mm.
George That means your album is that’s like Michael Jackson thriller kind of numbers, right?
Mo right
George I mean,
Jon Yeah, right.
George You know, that’s nuts.
Jon You’re not a regional success. Like, the planet knows who you are and is buying your album, right?
George Right.
Mo yeah
Jon It wasn’t just me driving down the road my pickup truck listening. It was all over the damn world.
Mo Is that just John?
George he
Mo You made John’s top 10.
Jon Ha ha.
Mo All
Jon You did. You certainly did. Man. Okay. We’ve talked about the songs. it’s It’s time. We get back from this very quick break. We’re going to jump and going to walk through every song on side one.
Jon Stick around. you You don’t want miss this.
Mo in right. Side one.
Jon Okay.
Mo Yeah, I’ll just jump right into it.
Jon So here’s the middle part. Here’s the middle part.
Mo ah Okay. Okay.
Jon Now, somebody… Somebody made a request last time we did an album to do something different here. I don’t remember what it was. Was it to play them right before we talk or just, Oh, it was play them just the first five. Then the next five later. Is that what it was?
Mo Oh, you want us, not but listeners.
Jon Whatever you you guys, you guys. Yeah. I thought there was something you asked me to do differently.
Mo Oh, ah either way.
George I mean, yeah either way, play em while we’re listening, before we record each one or at the start, whichever is easier.
Jon Okay. All right.
Jon Okay. All right.
George Don’t matter.
Jon Cool. All right. So here’s the first one. I think we know what this song is.
Jon Hmm.
Jon I got notes here. And the drum machine, the horns.
Mo yeah
Jon I thought I was going to make some revelation. review this thing well I’m going to finally learn what Susudio means. And then I learned it doesn’t mean shit, right?
Mo Nope, doesn’t mean shit.
Jon which
George Just a made up word.
Jon ah
George Mm-hmm.
Jon It’s just a cool word.
Jon Okay. Good on that one? All right. Like, we all know these songs, right?
Mo Yeah. Oops.
Mo Yeah.
Jon I think this album is going to be like my Billy Joel album was for you, George. just like, i didn’t even know all the songs on that album, but this one’s
George Mm-hmm.
Jon damn. Okay. Comfortable.
Mo yeah
Jon Oh, his vocals. right. Here we go.
Jon Hmm.
Jon Wow.
George Haunting.
Mo Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jon Atmospheric.
George This is one of the Sting backtracks, backing vocal tracks.
Jon Is it? Oh, that makes sense.
George Yep.
Jon Let’s get some vocals.
George And they did this one at Live Aid.
Jon How appropriate. Oh, damn how appropriate. No more think about it. just want to get to the vocals.
Jon ah
Mo Yeah.
Jon Damn.
Jon ah Chills. Okay. You good with that one?
Mo yeah
Jon sorry All right. ah Here we go.
Jon A little quicker intro.
George I don’t want know.
Jon Yeah.
Jon I like this one. More now.
Mo That’s right.
Jon Okay. One more. All right. And this is One More Night.
Jon Get right into that shit. Oh, sorry. I clicked it two times.
Mo and dr
Jon Hold on a second.
Jon Hmm.
Jon Oh, it’s a…
Jon This will make my heart hurt.
Mo Mm hmm.
Jon Damn it. right.
George This is the one that was in the movie.
Jon We good, guys? This
Mo Yeah, I’m good.
George Yeah, that was in Color Money.
Mo Mm hmm.
Jon is the one. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
George Yeah.
Jon All right. Okay. There you go, patrons. I think that was mostly just us sitting, enjoying the music. we have much to say about it.
Mo Yeah.
Jon It’s like, we’re like, I don’t remember this one. Nobody said that shit. Okay.
Mo Ready to jump in or.
Jon And Mo’s going to do it. Yeah. you want to jump straight in or you want me jump in?
Mo I just have right in. just jump straight in.
Jon Okay. All right. All right. And you know the deal. Same thing.
Mo yep
Jon Blah, blah, blah. And then give it a pause and then cut back in when you’re ready.
Mo All right, we’re going to kick off side one of this album. And let me tell you, if you don’t know this song in the first three seconds of hearing it, then you don’t know anything about 80s music.
Mo And of course, here I’m talking about Susudio.
Jon Probably. Hmm.
Mo I mean, come on, guys. This is probably like I think this was the biggest hit, I think, wasn’t it, of this album?
Jon i
George It was a number one for sure.
Jon Yeah, yeah. ah Man, the the the drum machine with that drum loop that I hadn’t heard that much in pop music.
Mo Mm hmm.
Jon and started to hear it You heard it like in New Wave stuff, but I hadn’t heard that so much in pop music like this, in a rock. And the horns, you know, just that, like the horn line, of course, being a drunk ah band geek, and that makes me happy whenever there’s, know, screaming trumpets up there, you know, with the little bit-a-bip-a-bip-a-bip-a-dip, those horn hits and things.
Jon I love that in this song.
Mo Did they ever do this in band? Is this a band song?
Jon I don’t know. no I don’t think I ever played it. I’m sure you could get the sheet music.
Mo ah Okay.
Jon Yeah.
George You know, what’s funny is, you know, I said it’s a number one, not just in the U S billboard charts, but also Panama and Peru number one on their charts, but freaking New Zealand, only number 27.
Mo Well, there you go.
Jon ah Well, they got good taste.
George What the hell is wrong with all those New Zealand people down there?
Jon What are they doing? Oh,
Mo you know, it’s New Zealand, you know.
George Oh my goodness.
Jon oh
Mo What I found funny about this is that, um you know like this one had a drum machine on it, but Collins played drums.
Jon Yeah.
Mo So I’m like, yeah, I guess so.
Jon Right, right. Well, you he’s busy singing. He couldn’t be bothered.
George Right.
Mo But, you know, it’s ah it’s just it seemed like a weird thing to like, oh, I wonder why is a drum machine going back? It works, though. What can you say?
Jon Yeah. And the theme is ah for such an upbeat song. And you hear when the song kicks off how why they wanted this album with the red tint on his face.
Mo Yeah.
Jon It’s hot. It is. like It’s almost it’s almost like Latin music. It’s like really in your face with the horns and the drums and everything. And for upbeat as it is, it’s about this unrequited love.
Mo Yeah.
Jon She makes me nervous. She makes me scared. I don’t know what to do.
Mo Mm hmm. Mm
Jon know that. And like it’s almost this weird juxtaposition of like this upbeat music and a kind of like longing. You know, it’s weird.
Mo hmm. I thought it was a great choice for the first song of an album, you know, because back in the day, you know, you put on side A, you put the needle on and you just let it go.
Jon You listen in order, right?
George Hehehehe.
Mo And or, you know it’s CD at this point, though. But still, though, it was like, you know, listening to the song as a first song on an album, it just got you going. Right. You were like, oh, I’m ready for this album at this point.
Jon Get you pumped. Yep, for sure.
George I mean, I think probably the most iconic part of the song, and obviously the, you know, the drum machine and whatnot, but the, the word, Susudio, the title of the song, I remember debating that with friends left, right, and center.
Jon Mm-hmm, right?
Mo Yeah.
George I had friends who, oh yeah, that’s a word from so-and-so. And that means this. And that means that totally made up bullshit word by Collins.
Mo What did?
Jon Yeah.
Mo Oh, really?
George And not only was that word made up in full of shit, but also he improvised most of the lyrics on this song during recording.
Jon Huh.
Mo How do you do that?
George So this is, well, I mean, you know, talent.
Mo How do you do that? How does somebody do that?
Mo I know that sucks.
George I don’t have it, so I just say the word talent, and that means what they have.
Jon Yeah.
Mo It’s just they think they should spread out talent more.
Jon yeah Before I learned it didn’t mean anything, I thought maybe it was like ah the woman’s name, you know, because I feel so good when I say the word Susudio.
Mo I thought, yeah, or something, or.
George Hmm.
Mo ah
Jon I’m like, it’s a weird name, but i don’t know who you know. you know m
George Well, they are obviously about a schoolboy’s crush on a girl.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George So that part makes, you know, I could see why you think that might be her.
Jon Yeah.
George You know, she’s got some weird English name.
Jon Right.
George She goes to like an English boarding school. You can make up a whole backstory for this girl.
Jon Of course. And I did. with my head, right?
George Ha ha ha ha ha.
Mo John was in love with her already.
Jon It feels like when I just say the word, was her name, but it wasn’t her name at all. It just a studio.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon But it makes you her an awesome rock song. And you’re right, Mo. Great way to kick off this album. Whew. Okay. Shall we move along to the next one? So the next album…
Mo Sure.
Jon ah Okay, so I’ll move along to the next one. The next track on side one, once you cool down from Susudio, is, yeah, I… This is one that is a cover song of a 1970 Dave Mason song, but as far as I’m concerned, Collins owns it here on No Jacket Required. Only you know and I know.
Jon All right.
George I think now i remember i might have been the one who asked you just play the songs when we’re doing that instead of having that weird awkward silence gap. That might have been what you were trying to think of earlier.
Mo Oh.
Jon Was it? Yeah. Yeah.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon Okay. Only you and when I know. So good. My notes here.
Jon and So this is a little bit of a tone shift for this album. We go from this really rock song, and then we have, it was more about longing and everything. And then you come to this Only You Know and I Know that is more about a long lasting relationship between people. it could be lovers, probably in the case of this, it could certainly be, you know, long, long time friends. I think it’s more suggested as probably lovers.
Jon But it’s it’s a much deeper kind of song to move in on the second track here. And I always found it to be and a welcome but interesting shift from, i I expected a couple of rock songs in a row and then this kind of this more melodic thing that’s a little deeper.
Mo Right.
Jon And i appreciated that.
George it’s, it’s not one of the more popular, well-known tracks from the album. That part I’m sure about, but if you were a fan of Collins, you didn’t listen to just what was on the radio.
Mo right
George You picked up the, the cassette tape like John did, stuck it in your car and you listen to these tracks over and over again.
Jon No, no.
Jon Yeah.
George So those tracks became familiar to real fans, but not necessarily to the casual easy pop listener. Maybe I, I personally, um,
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo Right. Mm-hmm.
George I think this song was probably my least favorite of the album, but that’s not to say it wasn’t great.
Jon Okay.
George I like all the songs on the album, but if I’m going to rank them, this is probably around number eight through 10 for me on the album.
Mo right
Jon Okay.
Jon Hmm. Okay. Maybe a little higher for me, but yeah. yeah You know, I like, it’s like um in the lyrics, when you listen to them, or if you read them, you know, it’s, they talk about this couple who has a shorthand for things that are often unsaid.
Jon You know, it’s like, this is, there’s this, and there’s these things. We don’t say that, but you know, and I know exactly what we’re talking about. You understand me.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon And it’s like that kind of like that soulmate or that kind of like that deep friendship relationship thing that, It doesn’t play so well on the radio. It’s not easy to get into and dance. It’s not about how hot you look in in short pants, right? It’s it’s like, oh, it’s it’s a thoughtful ah intellectual connection that I… i guess that’s why I always kind of elevate Colin’s music because you get all sorts of angles into relationships on his albums, not just the superficial.
Mo Yeah, and i I’m kind of with George. This isn’t like one of my favorite songs in the album, but you have to admit it’s catchy.
Jon No?
Jon It is, yeah.
Mo You know, the lyric is like very, you know, it’s like very like, well, that’s a catchy tune there. You know, like when I say I’m playing this an album, I’m not to sit there and try to get to skip. You know, I’m going to like let it play through and be quite happy doing it.
Jon no no yeah happy with throw it to you you want jump in i it to you i’ll throw it to you yeah yeah let me help you in let me help you in all right well here’s well up next is another little shift going into the next track right george
George Okay. oh Yeah. Okay.
George Yeah. ah So the next track on the album, track number three, ah is probably starts off as being one of the more haunting songs on the album.
Mo Yeah.
George There’s a couple of them here, but this definitely is one of the top ones.
Jon Yep. Mm-hmm.
George ah It’s Long, Long Way to Go.
Jon Ooh.
Jon It’s heavy, so.
George Now, we talked a little bit earlier about Sting singing some backing vocals on this album. This is one of the two songs that he sang on.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo yeah
Jon Okay. Makes sense. Yeah.
George ah This is also one that he and Phil Collins performed at Live Aid as part of that concert um in England, not over in the U.S., because Sting, you know, he ain’t traveling like that. But still…
George I think, um, what the departure point for this song on the album for me is that, that organ starting at the very beginning of the song, just, who hoa ho who you know, just that, like, I was like, am I about to watch 2001 a space odyssey?
Jon Mm hmm. It’s haunting.
Mo Mm-hmm.
George What the fuck is going on when I first heard that song, but it, it breaks down. it has like a vibe that I would have expected to see this in, um a bunch of different, um, like movies or TV shows or something along like that lines.
George And it was actually in a Miami vice episode. So yeah, ah Phil Collins himself was on Miami vice.
Jon That fits.
Mo Okay, yeah.
Jon Yeah. of course. It’s funny. I swear to God, I was about to say, it sounds like something here Miami Vice, and then you beat me to that comment.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon It was unbelievable.
George Yeah. Yeah.
Jon Perfect fit. Yeah.
George Yeah, it was an episode called Sons and Lovers. So I need to go back and watch that episode because I don’t remember it. I just learned that doing the research for this podcast. But I know that Phil Collins was ah very close to Jan Hammer and they did a lot of work together on that series.
Jon There you go. Yeah.
George So to hear that this song was in that episode was no big surprise.
Jon Sure.
Mo Yeah, and from really listening to it to get ready for this podcast, you know, I guess I was trying to pay, I paid more attention to the lyrics than I did maybe as a kid growing up.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo And this one, it seemed like it really just sort of even fits today a lot because it’s kind of like how we’re sort of and like how being indifferent or like there’s so much going on that you just want to turn it off.
Jon Yeah.
Jon Yeah.
Mo You just don’t want to listen to it anymore, you know.
Jon Yeah. Oh, man.
Mo And I’m like listening this, I’m like, man, I said, this is like actually kind of getting to me. Yeah.
Jon It makes me emotional. listen If I’m listening to this, if listening the background, it’s fine. It’s just, it’s a great song.
Mo Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jon But listening to it deeply and understanding it… It’s really it’s put things in perspective. Right. It’s almost like ah it’s like almost like Phil Collins recognizing and pointing out, you know, his position of entitlement. You know, well I’m a celebrity and I’m a star. But listen, like this thing, there’s there’s one line i wrote down while I sit and we talk and we talk and we talk some more.
Jon Someone’s loved one’s heart stops beating in a street somewhere. Holy shit.
George here
Jon Yeah, so we’re hanging out and having a good time at a rock concert, but people are suffering and dying in the streets. Someone’s mother just passed away. Bad things are happening all over. You can’t just turn a blind eye to it.
Jon We have a long, long way to go.
Mo Mm hmm. Oh, yeah.
Jon it’s not We’re not a successful society yet. We have work to do because people still suffer. It’s really heavy, and I love that message.
George Which is why it was such a great choice for Live Aid. At the time…
Mo oh yeah
Jon Right. I know. Right.
George right The whole famine in Ethiopia, that was stuff that was hitting some people hard, but a lot of other people were doing like what the lyric was talking about, just dismissing it out of hand and not even thinking about it or talking about it.
Jon kidding. no kidding
Jon Oblivious. Sure.
George But this song, ah can you imagine… And I’ve seen the Live Aid concert many times, but i I don’t remember seeing this part live on that day.
George But can you imagine Phil Collins and Sting up on stage, just the two of them, doing this song with that subject matter during the concert to try and help end the famine in Ethiopia?
Mo he
Jon Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Damn.
Jon Fantastic.
Mo Yeah, I mean, and listening to Sting’s background, what he’s saying in that too is like, you know, it’s kind of heavy because it’s like, you know, turn it off if you want to, switch it off, it will go away. you know, I mean, it’s like, you know, it’s like, yeah, a lot of people are burying their head in the sand right now.
George Yeah.
Mo you know, it’s not going to go away if you do that. it’s still going be there.
Jon Yeah.
George Yeah. I mean, granted it’s no, I want my MTV like you did with dire straits, but still very poignant.
Mo it’s It’s okay.
Jon oh Okay, let’s lighten the tone a little bit, Mo. What’s up next on side one?
Mo Yeah, I mean, I’m sorry. Yeah, this next song definitely ups the beat again. Like he goes from somber back to kind of upbeat music and it’s I Don’t Want to Know.
Jon yeah
Mo Yeah, talk about an energetic song after that last one.
Jon Oh man. Oh gosh.
Mo it’s It’s such a switch.
George That’s a solid song,
Mo It’s almost disconcerting a switch, to be quite honest. Like after that last song and jumping this one, you’re like, whoa, you know, like, geez, that’s a big jump.
Jon ah I need the release after that last song. I need something upbeat after that.
George yeah.
Jon Let me just jump in and say why I love this song so much. This might be… You talked about your bottom two or three, George, eight, nine, tens. This is in my top three on this album. I don’t want to know.
George solid song yeah
Jon And this is…
Mo Right.
Jon Yeah. And here’s why. The song is great as a song. Again, listen these songs two ways. In the background, in your car, while you’re talking. And then, like, focused, listening. Maybe reading the lyrics or paying attention to the words.
Jon So many pop songs are about, oh, that girl or that boy that I want to be with or whatever.
Mo yeah
Jon And this is like, hey, I’ve been dumped. Not going back to you. I don’t care if you’re lonely.
Mo right
Jon I don’t care if you’re crying. I don’t want to know. i am self-secure in this post-relationship. I am my own person. I don’t need you to validate me. She can cry all she wants. She’s not going to get me back.
Mo Yeah.
Jon this is like This is like an 85 version of We Are Never Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift. Like, yeah, your friends talk to my friends. Talk to me. We’re never getting back together. I don’t need you anymore. And I liked it like it. It’s just so self-confident that is…
Jon it’s it’s an attitude that’s missing in a lot of pop music. It’s mostly longing and desirous. and Or I’m so sad because i mean I’m, you devastated and this is a, I’m okay. It’s over. You’re done with me. I’m done with you. Don’t care how you feel anymore.
Jon And I like that kind of confidence.
Mo Yeah, absolutely. Because like you said, like most of the songs are back then were like, you know oh, she broke up and I’m depressed.
Jon Yeah. Right.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Ooh.
Mo Oh, what can I do to get her back?
Jon Leader of the laundromat.
Mo Or blah, blah.
Jon Right. It’s, you know,
Mo This was like, we broke up. I’m moving on. I’m good with it.
Jon Yeah.
Mo You know?
Jon i don’t want to hear your story. We’re finished. yeah
Mo Yeah, we’re we’re not in relationship anymore. Oh, man. So. <unk>m sorry So this.
Jon didn’t go.
Mo this Good. Good, John.
Jon she go she goes Do you have anything else to say about that one, George?
Mo No.
Jon We didn’t give you a chance to jump in.
George No, no, I’m good.
Jon we can Okay, that’s great.
Mo Okay.
Jon All right.
Mo So this next song, though, that we’re going to jump into is another big one, isn’t it, George? Oh, sorry.
Jon Oh, drink.
Mo This next song we just want to jump into is another big one, isn’t it, John?
Jon Yeah, and it’s after how much I liked the last one. This one takes, it flips the script back to what we’re used to. Still a great song, but not as confident a tone. This one is One More Night.
Jon Yeah, okay. Oh, you want to come back from this one?
George Yeah, I’ll jump in.
Jon Yeah, go ahead.
Mo Go for it.
Jon Yeah, go ahead, jump in.
George All right. Now you sounded like with that comment right before you played that music, John, that you don’t like this song as much. And I think we might be about to throw down because if you don’t like one more night, we’ve got some fucking problems.
Jon well Well, keep in mind, as much as relative, it’s still a Greatville Columns album. But, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
George I mean, it only is his second number one single of all time, right after against all odds on the previous, uh, album and with the movie soundtrack and everything.
Jon Mm-hmm. Yeah.
George So it obviously received a ton of accolades. I love this song, but I, since this was the one that you get to talk about in this segment, I guess I’ll let you run your mouth for a little while and show how ignorant you are.
Mo Yeah.
Jon ah
George Go ahead.
Jon i I guess you will. so ah So I’m not, when I say it’s very different tonally, I’m not speaking, it’s a worse song. I’m saying the the position the song takes for me falls right back into that trope, right? It’s the opposite of I don’t want to know. Whereas I don’t want to know was, oh, it’s all over. We’re finished. Fine. We’re moving on. And this is more, give me one more shot at being with you.
Jon Like a river to the sea, I will always be with you. And if you sail away, I will follow you. it it is that, Yeah, it sounds, as as I read the lyrics, it either sounds like…
Jon He wants to be together with this person or was and isn’t anymore and wants another shot at it, which I kind of think is the one more night.
Mo Thank you.
Jon It’s that longing thing. Is the song beautiful? Definitely. Is it relishable? Absolutely. It deserves its hit status. I just, the part that George says I’m wrong about is that i I don’t like the tone of it after we’ve done something so original in the last song. And especially following back to back, it just is very stark contrast for me.
Mo Well, yeah, and this song also is kind of like more what you call pure Phil Collins. You know, his whole balladeer songs that he’s really well known for.
Jon Oh, yeah.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon Yeah, yeah.
Mo And so, you know, of this whole first side, I think is the first one that kind of goes back to that.
Jon Agreed.
Mo but Everyone really knows him for right back before this album came out.
George Yeah, and I’ve noticed a trend when we do these musical backtracks, when we pick an album or a concert or whatever it is we pick.
Jon Uh-huh.
Mo Mm hmm.
George John seems to get pissy about the songs where a man is longing for another woman.
Jon Uh-huh.
George So there’s something deep-seated in his past that causes him to be against that type of lyric or music, I think.
Mo yeah
George So I’m no longer taking his… critiques on these kinds of songs, because I think he’s transferring some deep seated trauma into his analysis of a great song.
Jon and No, no, no. ah
George Arguably one of Phil Collins is best on this particular album next to Susudio. I’ll give you, but still the the fact that it’s not a good, no, fuck off. Uh-uh.
Jon you You keep saying I said it’s a bad song and I didn’t. you You keep who’s now who’s projecting? No, no. Fantastic song.
George I’m just saying you shit on a lot of the songs I like in these podcasts.
Jon Yep.
Jon It sounds like maybe you had it coming.
George Don’t think so. We’re going get some letters written in. Ladies and gentlemen, the George is right campaign needs to start with this song again.
Jon I can’t wait.
Jon let that go and just let the music swell.
Mo yeah but’s Actually, up think I like it better when we so like just before we talk about the song, we hear it.
Jon Yeah, that’s good right there.
George um Okay.
Jon Yeah, I think that’s good spot. Okay. ah Great. So how do we have George kick the next one? You want jump or you want to get pitched?
George i can I can go into it.
Jon You go in.
George fine.
Jon Okay. Oh, oh music. How about listening music?
George Yeah.
Jon Hey, welcome back patrons.
George Yeah.
Jon Yes.
Mo Personally, rather than hearing them all at once. don’t know. How do you feel about it, guys? Yeah.
George That’s what I was talking about earlier.
Mo Yeah.
George That must have been the request that I made a while back and we forgot what it was.
Jon Maybe i’ve I remembered something. Yeah. So here’s what I’m going to do.
George Yeah.
Jon um We can do both, right?
George are they
Jon So
George Are they individual ones? Like buttons that you click? Yeah.
Jon Yeah, they are.
George Okay.
Jon I’m getting them loaded. So for the for the patron bonus, ah let me let’ go ahead and do it like we had been doing, but I will refresh it right before we talk about it as well.
George Yeah. Just that, that space where we just sit there silently, just play the song there.
Jon Play a
Jon play a little bit? Okay.
George Yeah.
Jon Okay. So here’s the cohesive part that will be for patrons, and then I’ll do that other part as well, so. Okay, patrons, we’re back in the break between a a couple of segments, and now we’re go getting ready for the second second side of the album, the B-side. starts with this one.
Jon Drum machine!
Jon And what’s some keyboards next, right?
Jon There we go.
George do to This feels like it should have been in the Karate Kid movie.
Mo Yeah. Yeah.
Jon Mmm, yeah.
George Right next to Banana-rama.
Mo yeah
George Fear behind shadows were on the ground. Who would find him?
Jon I love talking about this one. All
Mo yeah
George No evidence was found.
Jon right. Shall we move on
George I’m never coming back.
Jon Yeah, that’s good.
Mo yeah
Jon I wish you could see George is singing along. Maybe you can hear him.
George it
Jon I like this one.
George I think this may be the stronger side, even though side one has the two favorite songs.
Jon Even though Susudio’s over there.
Mo Yeah. Yeah.
Jon Yeah, I know. Well, that’s strong. With Susudio and One More Night on side a that’s a strong statement.
Mo yeah
George Yeah, but this has like four out of the five.
Jon Let’s be made of stone.
George I mean, really, the only moderately weak song on this album, on this side, is Inside Out.
Jon Hmm.
Mo Really?
Jon Here’s the here’s the third one.
Mo yeah um like that song.
Jon Number eight.
George Well, no I like it.
Jon Yeah.
George I’m just saying moderately weak.
Mo Oh. See, this is the one that for me.
George This is another one John’s going to shit all over.
Mo this actually is not one of my favorites.
Jon so
Mo this is a might lower This is my lower third of this album.
George Oh, you don’t like don’t anybody’s? Oh, really?
Jon Yeah. the
George Wow.
Jon This stands out as being very different on this side to me. There’s something just melodically about it, not even thematic.
George I’m
George sorry.
Mo Again, it’s like, you know,
Jon ah Phil Collins’ voice is so weird, he’s almost falsetto, but not.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Right? He’s not, ah, like that, but he’s like this, right, this very light little lilting tone.
Mo You know,
George o at At times, for sure, yeah.
Mo is group it was funny when ah Peter Gabriel left Genesis, they didn’t want Phil Collins to be lead vocalist because they thought his voice was too soft.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Jon Yeah, it is soft, Yeah.
George Well, and he didn’t want to do it.
Mo Yeah, but they he did it and it worked.
Jon All right, then we get this one.
Mo So.
George They kind of ran out of choices.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Number, what is this? Number nine. Two more left.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon I read something interesting about this one. I can’t wait to talk about, see what you think.
George think basically it’s like the whole album is relationship songs.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yeah. yeah There’s one I… Maybe not, we’ll see. Yeah. right. And this is the last door on the track. Take me home.
Mo Yep.
George Hmm.
George This is solid. Another Miami Vice song, I think.
Jon Yeah.
Mo This really oh it makes sense.
Jon Again, makes sense, right?
George I think so.
Jon I can see Tubbs and Crockett riding down the sunset road. Yeah.
Jon Okay. All right. All right. Cool.
George All right, everybody. After that debacle of John’s incorrect information on the last side, we’re going to jump right into side number two.
Jon We’ll see in the emails.
Mo Bye.
George Okay. First song up on side number two as Mo would put his little needle down on the album is Don’t Lose My Number.
George Do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-do-do. Do-do-do-do-do-do.
Jon If you’re going to jump in any time, I’ll fade it out as soon as you start talking.
Mo Yeah.
George Now, the only question I have on this song, because I really enjoyed it, um it’s one of my favorite songs on the album, is the Billy from this song, the same Billie Jean from Michael Jackson’s album?
Jon don’t think so yep yeah this so first kick off this side with the cool drum machine again so love that which again i know weird you got to think phil collins set up the drum machine with what he wanted to do because he’s a drummer but
George Because Billie Jean seems to be an asshole, whoever Billy is
Mo yeah
Mo I’m sure. Yeah.
George I bet you it was the producer in the studio.
Jon you think so you don’t think phil did it okay anyway so
George I think so. I mean, he he might have, but still, I think the producer had a lot to do with it.
Jon I always loved this song and never, again, I thought, well, I’m going to learn what Susudio is. I’m to learn what Don’t Lose My Number is all about.
Mo Those men.
Jon And then I went researching. They sound like nonsense because they are.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Colin said it was a stream of consciousness writing and there’s no real story or message.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon However, however, people have tried to find a through line and meaning in this song. You ready for this? I like it. I like it.
Mo All right. geez.
Jon This song describes an outcast. They didn’t know him. Well-meaning. He never meant to do anything wrong. Character probably being wrongly accused. You know that I am on your side.
Jon By the society for an act they consider wrong. It’s been going on for a while. It’s going to get worse if you wait too long.
Mo geez
Jon And in all likelihood is going to end badly for him. Oh, Billy, you better you better run for your life. Probably about a crime for which the primary suspect fled jurisdiction.
George So this is
Mo oh ge
Jon That’s the theory.
George so this is this is a song about John Wayne Gacy then.
Mo Wow. Yeah.
George Okay.
Jon I’m not sure we’s supposed to be a serial killer, but yeah, it, it, it does have this flow and like, you can, I think because maybe it was written with a stream of consciousness that you can map your own story onto it.
George Now I get it. Yeah.
Jon And that’s what I always did as a kid listening and and as an adult and just met my own ideas onto it.
Mo yeah
George yeah
Mo It definitely sounds like it’s telling a story, though. Like when you hear the music, it sounds like it’s telling a story, you know, like because and it’s just the way the way it’s formatted, and the way it’s put together.
Jon It does um unintentionally though, apparently.
Jon he
Mo It just sounds like someone’s telling a saga of some sort.
Jon Sure.
Mo Have you guys seen the music video for this one?
Jon Yeah.
Jon I’m sure I must have, yeah.
George Yeah.
Mo Oh, this is the one where the sensey the song really didn’t have a theme. he basically just made a fun of all the other music videos out there.
Jon Oh, the other act!
George Yeah.
Mo Right.
Jon That’s right. Yep.
George Yeah.
Jon Yep.
Mo You know, if you people listen to it, I’ll find a link to that one of the music videos.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo you This one, it’s, it’s really funny.
Jon Awesome.
Mo Actually, it’s really fun to watch.
Jon Yeah.
George Yeah, Collins did have, he and Genesis both, they had some great music videos back in the early MTV days, no question.
Mo hmm.
Jon Yep.
George But i you talked about this being stream of consciousness and we’re trying to maybe a assign story where there might not be. I kind of think of that in the same way that when I used to take some writing classes in college,
George Our professor, I remember in particular, we had an assignment where the professor would start a sentence on the board and it was our job to write the next sentence and then another person write the next sentence and so on and so forth.
Mo Oh, yeah, yeah.
Jon Okay, yeah, yeah.
Mo Yeah.
George It’s a pretty common writing exercise.
Jon Exercise.
George And what you would find is even though no one had anything pre-planned for the story, the story would develop as people brought their own inner selves to the storyline.
George And so even though it’s a stream of consciousness, one person writing after another, and in this case, him writing the lyric one after another, the story comes from within.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George So it’s ah he may not have planned it. i’m not I’m sure he didn’t because he said he didn’t, but that doesn’t mean that a story didn’t come from somewhere and didn’t start to coalesce. I bet if you give him two or three months on those lyrics, a story does develop in his mind that he could assign to what he wrote and maybe fine tune some lyrics and something.
George I’m glad he didn’t. I like the song as is, but still ah I know stream of conscious means, Oh, I, I wasn’t really planning on anything, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t have a story to me.
Jon yeah
Jon I like that I can map my own thing onto it. It’s not so concrete.
George Yeah.
Jon and It almost means over time, it might mean something different to you as you move through your life, which it works too. Leaving it a little open-ended can help in lot of ways.
George Yeah.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yeah. All right. Mo, you want to move us along to the next track?
Mo Oh, sure. I mean, so again, this is a little bit, you know, but punchier song, a bit livelier song here again it’s Who Said I Would.
Mo Now, i don’t know about you guys. I definitely got Susudio vibes from this one.
Jon Mm-hmm. I can hear that. Makes sense.
Jon is is this I was agreeing with you.
Mo I was just saying tossing out. Oh,
Jon Okay. All right. um right
George was Was that the end of your sentence? Because that was not leading at all.
Mo oh I just I just thought, OK.
Jon i thought Sorry. My thought, you were continuing on with that thought. I was agreeing with you and you’re going on. So all right.
Mo OK, I’m sorry, I could keep i could do it again. Let’s do it again.
Jon Okay.
Mo So don’t know about you guys, but I definitely got some so studio vibes from this one.
Jon Yes, I can hear that. Yeah, I hear that too.
Mo you know It’s like that whole punchy, that that in the opening to it.
George Mm-hmm.
Mo Once it got to the whole instrumental piece, the horns again, like i definitely was like, okay.
Jon And horns. Horns again.
Mo like So to me, in a way, i i it this song actually disappointed little bit because it sounded so much, it reminded me so much of Susudio in a way.
Jon Oh, really?
Mo you know and i was like, wow, it’s kind of the same song twice in a way.
Jon Huh.
Jon Yeah.
George For me, it had a defiant tone. The title alone.
Jon Yes.
George Who said I would? Fuck you people.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yep. Yep.
George that’s i mean
Mo This is George’s anthem right here.
George Now granted, maybe that’s young, argumentative George throwing himself into the song, but still, it’s like, who the hell said I would do this or do that or whatever? That’s what I was getting out of it when I first heard the song.
Jon Yeah, this is one of those, you know, you’ve already been roasting me, George, over this relationship, my attitude toward the relationships. This is another, you said, a lot of relationship songs on this. And this is another facet. And I like it because it’s not the typical relationship song. It’s not just lamenting and longing for kind of thing.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon This is like a relationship where it’s on again, off again. i feel like maybe he gets used and dumped a lot. No, whether it’s, you know, maybe she gets what she wants, whether it’s sex or companionship or validation or money or whatever.
Jon And there’s this line, you’re not the only one, but you’ll do fine. Ouch. Ow.
George a
Jon Damn. That hurts. Heart must be made of stone. She’ll miss me when I’m gone, but. Yeah, it’s it’s this kind of like, I’m a glutton for punishment. I keep coming back.
Jon Who said I would? But I do. You know, it’s it’s he can’t get escape this relationship. But you almost feel like he likes it, but he doesn’t like how it makes him feel, maybe.
Mo Yeah, I definitely got almost like other people are telling him that this relationship’s bad, but he’s not listening kind of vibe, you know, because like, you know, she’s got a heart, bust me made of stone.
Jon Of course. Yeah. Yeah.
Mo yeah It’s like, you okay, that’s where you are.
Jon Yeah. yep
Mo And this one definitely seems like it to me, it also brings us the most probably 80s song up there with maybe Susudio, I think it on the album, like you just when I hear it, I just think eighty s I don’t know why.
Jon so Okay. Uh-huh. Yeah. It’s a tight song. Again, being likes a studio, I never considered them to be you know copies of each other. You said you’re like, oh they’re a little too much the same.
Jon Because I kind of listen more of tonally, ah the story base. I don’t i never considered them to be so identical. I guess like instrumentation, they’re kind of similar.
Mo Yeah. Yeah.
Jon But yeah, I like it. And… Before I knew what the lyrics meant, I was like you, George, that defiant, like, who the hell said I would care about, you know, whatever, whatever it is, whatever. it And so when I listened to it, it almost changed like, oh, no, I was treating this song differently.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon I thought it was a defiant thing. And it’s more of someone who’s a little bit trapped. And he’s trying to use the defiance as a way to shield him from the fact that he’s trapped. And it’s a good storytelling in these with very little lyrics.
Jon Good storytelling. and I appreciate that in this whole album.
Mo yeah
Jon Yeah. um Let’s see. Shall we move along the next?
Mo yeah Oh, I was going to toss to You want me to toss you?
Jon So we go ahead. Sure. Yeah, yeah that’s fine.
Mo Okay. Yeah. so moving on to next song is definitely one of the more poignant, I guess I’ll call it songs on the album.
Jon Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This next one is directly inspired by what was going on in Colin’s life at the time and around him. This is doesn’t anybody stay together anymore?
Jon Yeah.
Mo in
Jon Get over for to my notes.
Jon want get the lyrics.
Jon It’s a long way.
Jon There we go. All right.
Jon Yeah, I’m going kick off talking about this one by talking about some of its origin that I learned preparing for this show. It was inspired by discussion Collins had with his manager, Tony Smith, and producer Hugh Padham about the number of divorces happening among their friends.
Jon They realized that many couples they knew were separating, leading to the central question of this song, doesn’t anybody stay together anymore? He was frustrated by the state of marriage in his circle of people.
George Yeah. You know, it was a very hot topic in the mid eighties, right? It, we were just coming out of the sixties, seventies era where families traditionally would stick together. It wasn’t a national conversation of divorce, but certainly in the eighties with latchkey children
Jon Right. Yeah.
George and you know, kids running wild on the street and everything. Divorce was a very hot topic. So I can understand and I can probably imagine them sitting around in the studio when they’re maybe even working on this album or something like that later.
Mo Yeah.
George you know Just, Oh God, this person got divorced. That person got divorced.
Mo e
Jon Right. Oh, did you hear they’re breaking up now?
George The kids are going to be in.
Jon Yeah.
Mo yeah
George Yeah. What’s it going to do to the kids? All this kind of stuff. I can see how this song comes about pretty easily.
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo yeah One the really liked about this song, though, how it kind of starts off with like a really strong instrumental. And then when the vocal comes in, it’s almost like someone turns the volume down. Like it drops out and kind of keeps, know, I just love that whole tone of this one.
Jon Kind of drops out. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Jon Yeah, there’s some heavy lyrics in here that I really appreciate and enjoy. I made a couple of notes. um Genius writing. Your heart’s on your sleeve, but your sleeve’s rolled up. That’s some great imagery.
Jon Your glass is empty and the chips are down. kind of Not only the two different ways to talk about how you’re down on your luck, but also you picture, well, it’s probably at a bar gambling, you know escaping the reality. So your glass is empty and the chips are down at the same time. It just paints this picture in so few words.
Jon And yeah and it it has that like, and it’s not that he was immune from those sorts of relationship issues, but he’s like looking out, like witnessing relationships falling apart and questioning the very institution of marriage.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon And like, why is it changing? Like maybe George said that I’ll say. Like you were saying, it’s ah it was the 80s. You had two separate household and two separate incomes now, and so it was now possible.
Mo e
Jon you know Women didn’t feel so trapped if marriages weren’t good. There were all kinds of factors, and he’s not trying to answer the question here. He’s just saying, what the heck is going on with marriage and with couples and families?
George Yeah.
Jon And it’s it’s ah it’s not super heavy, but it’s contemplative, and it’s thoughtful.
George You mentioned that lyric at the beginning and I was just waiting for you to go through your thought because I didn’t want to interrupt because it was a good thought.
Jon Yeah, yeah.
George But you talked about the one where, you know, heart on the sleeve, sleeve rolled up. I always wondered if that lyric didn’t inspire the bare naked ladies lyric ah where they say, ah wear my hair, my heart on my sleeve.
Jon Oh,
George I have a tendency to lose my shirt.
Jon oh interesting. Well, they both work the heart on the sleeve.
George i mean I’m sure it probably didn’t mean, you know, separate, you know, inspirational things, but they it’s a great lyrical choice to tie those two kinds of acts together that are strictly emotional, doesn’t have any basis in reality, but still tying the emotional part to the physical act is funny to me.
Jon Yeah. But you you connect them. Yeah, there’s a connection. Got it.
Jon I get you.
Jon Okay. All right. Well, we’re in the contemplative tune. Sorry. Well, we’re in the contemplative mode. George, why don’t you take us along to the next track on this album? Just a couple left.
George Yeah. Next one is a person who is living in a land of confusion. Haha. See what I did to right there?
Mo I see what you do there.
Jon See what you did there? I get it.
George Nice.
Jon Yeah.
George Nice. This is inside out.
Mo He he he.
George Now, I wanted to let it get to the lyric just a little bit before I kicked in there, because the the song starts off with the title, which is interesting, but the entire basis of all the lyrics are all just about how confusing everything is in and around his world.
Jon Yeah.
George And now he keeps trying to fight back a little bit against it, but it’s still just the whole time of everything’s twisting him around, got him turned inside out, so to speak.
Mo she
Jon Yeah.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon yeah
George There’s a line that I found. I’m going to find it again here. Now everybody’s got me running around up and down. And here I am going out of my mind, but I won’t lose sight of all the things I’m looking for.
George They’re coming to me and I’m taking what’s mine. So he’s, he’s getting tossed and turned around in this storm of upheaval, but he’s not quitting.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George He’s not giving up. So I, I like this song because even though it’s one of my lower songs on the album, I’ll say again, even though this one might be in my bottom third of songs,
George every song on the album is better than 90% of what was out there at the time.
Mo Right. It’s all relative.
Jon you know And from those lyrics you were just quoting, it always made me feel that this song was a little bit about his challenge to go solo and pull out pull himself to the spotlight out of Genesis. Yeah.
Jon You know, all my life I’ve been searching and hanging on, turning a corner and never knowing what I would find. And then the the part that you just read about how taking what is mine kind of thing. I saw that as i mean, he’s always been for as long as we’ve known him. He’s been a star. He’s been a celebrity, whether it was in Genesis or not.
Jon But staking his own claim and making his own thing. made me feel like maybe there was some some conflict in that internally for him. And I could be projecting is maybe how I’m thinking about him, but that’s how I always thought of this song was a little autobiographical about setting out on his own.
Mo Hmm.
Jon Now, though this is the third album, he was well-established. Still, the feelings might’ve been there.
Mo Yeah, I just love the way the song kind of plays the two sides against each other because you get the whole inside out, you know, refrain that’s always with the big horns. and
Jon Mm-hmm.
Mo And then when he comes to his lyrics, it’s almost like very soft, calm lyric.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George Mm-hmm.
Jon yeah Almost that dropout again a little bit.
Mo And then it goes back. Yeah, then it goes back to the loud part.
Jon Yeah. Well, and he has that feathery, soft voice.
Mo It goes back to the sort, you know.
Jon Like you can’t, you got to amp him up. You want to hear him over loud music. You know, he’s, he’s not a strong, strong voice.
Mo Yeah.
Jon He’s more almost a haunting voice, but I, which I like. Yeah.
George Yeah, and I don’t know, and i’m not to throw shade at your thoughts about you know him leaving Genesis, he didn’t really leave Genesis at this point.
Mo No. Yeah.
Jon That’s fair. Yeah.
George He was still in Genesis.
Jon He just, just set out on his own separately.
George They were just doing separate things.
Jon That’s fair.
Mo yeah
Jon Yeah.
George So maybe…
Jon Good point.
George even though it it might not have been about him leaving Genesis because he didn’t, but maybe it was just about him trying to figure out his single way in the world, having been a part of such a cohesive unit for so long.
Jon Okay, sure.
George Because the truth of the matter is Collins has said in interviews early on in the 80s, 90s, and after that, that after that that He never wanted to be the front man of anything.
Jon i know, yeah.
Mo Yeah, he’s happy being a drummer.
George He really just wanted to play the drums and be in the background.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George Peter Gabriel was an obvious choice for the front man of that band when they were all together.
Mo Oh, yeah, he loved being a front man.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George ah Yeah, he is Mr.
Jon Yeah.
George Frontman, right? But I mean, i I wonder if this was more of a reaction to him being thrust into that role against his wishes.
Jon Hmm.
George Because everybody was pulling at him.
Jon Yeah.
George The music labels were certainly wanting him to go.
Jon Inside out. Sure.
George mean Every time there’s a successful band with a lead singer, what the music company you want to do? Hey, let’s take him out of here and put him on his own and we can control him more and we can make more money off of him and all that bullshit.
George I wonder if this song might’ve been in reference to that. I don’t know when it was written because this is his third singles album.
Jon Right. Right.
George So it’s not like, you know, he’s by the time this album comes out, it’s not as though he hasn’t been in that world for a while.
Jon Sure.
Jon Right.
George It just depends on when the song was written.
Mo Yeah. I mean, to me, I always took the song as just, just living like just normal life, you know, where it’s like, sometimes you feel like the things are calm and then other times it’s just,
George Hmm.
Mo you know, things are just not going the way you expect or you having to deal with it. And I was, when I heard song, always kind of took it those two ways. Like, you know, there’s the crazy part and then there’s like, okay, you know, here’s what, here’s what I need to have happened. And here’s the crazy part. Here’s what need to have happen.
Mo You know, and that back and forth.
Jon Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, if that’s heavy, it’s not going to get any lighter as we move on to one of the great and final tracks on this album. Mo, why don’t you take us through the last one?
Mo Oh, yeah. ah This is one of my favorite songs on the whole album. You know, super energetic, really great tempo on it. It’s Take Me Home.
Mo when i when we started doing research for this, i always thought the song was just simply about being homesick you know and and when to go back home.
Jon Yeah.
Mo Apparently, it has a lot more behind it.
Jon Yeah.
Mo he said I read that it was inspired by what Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, you know the Ken Kesey novel, um is and about an institutionalized patient waiting to go home, not just about some
Jon yeah
Mo person at college waiting to go back home you know I mean like it’s I’m like huh that that I have to listen to these lyrics again because I didn’t grab that the first time
Jon Oh, wow. hadn’t heard that angle.
Jon Damn. Well, first, i got to shout out those tribal drums, the toms and the bongos the beginning, which is just really great.
Mo yeah yeah
Jon But i’ve this is a weird album to end. This is a weird track to end an album on, in my opinion. It’s kind of depressing is the wrong word.
Jon Resigned. It’s like hours run together and the days run together and they slip by. I can’t remember. It’s like you’re resigned with your lot in life despite what’s happening to you. For such an upbeat bunch of other songs that led into it, it’s always seemed like a weird, and the CD was better when added a song after this. You get something to cleanse your palate, but this is what it leaves you on, and it’s a little bit somber.
George I mean, i don’t think that’s unusual for Collins. He was known to be a very somber person during this period of his life. So that doesn’t surprise me at all. I just wanted to point out a couple of trivia points to this.
George This is another Miami Vice song.
Jon Mm-hmm. Sure.
Mo Yeah.
George So, you know, again, this one was in the prodigal son that episode.
Jon Makes sense.
George So I need to go watch that now.
Mo Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
George Uh, this was also, uh, one of those songs that had some, uh, stars doing the backing vocals against sting and this time, Peter Gabriel as well, which we talked about earlier.
Mo he
George So this song had a lot of power behind it. And i think that maybe this is why it was such a such a, powerful song of the time.
Mo z
George i like, yeah, I mean the lyrics I know are, you know, like I get what you’re saying, you know, it’s got that summer mood to and everything, but at the same time, just when you couple the lyrics along with the title, it makes me feel like the person just like, okay, I’m done with all this bullshit.
Jon It is powerful. Yeah.
Jon Yeah.
George We just went through for nine songs. Just take me home.
Jon this is Yeah. yeah It’s this feeling of like, it is another juxtaposition where the lyrics talk about, you know, they have this dull life and you day in and day out and then, you know, cranking at the wheel, no real dreams or passions or anything.
Jon But then the, the chorus just take me home.
Mo Yeah.
Jon It’s like Calgon, take me away.
George e
Jon It’s like, I, I long for something better and more, but I’m stuck here.
Mo Yeah.
George He just needs the respite.
Jon And that that’s the part that’s, yeah. Yeah. I just, I need out. I need something else. Yeah. Hmm.
Jon We have walked through Phil Jockens. Phil Jockens? Phil. Three, two.
Mo but Phil Jocken required.
Jon Phil Jockens required. In five, four, three. We have walked through Phil Collins’ No Jacket Required track by track and shared our thoughts on it. But before we leave you, what has become a tradition on these album backtracks is each of us has selected a track to champion. It is our favorite track on the album. And I tell you, we had a planning meeting last week all right, what who’s going to pick what?
Jon And somebody said whatever they picked first, and that guy said, damn it! Because there’s so many great songs that we all kind of wanted, but I think we all settle on ones that make us happy.
Mo Yeah.
Jon George, why don’t we start with you? What’s the track you’d like to champion from this album?
George 100% I am happy to champion the track One More Night. So ah number one track from this album.
Jon Yeah, I get it.
George It’s beautiful. um The lyrics are super strong in this one. And John, you talked often about how Phil Collins has that kind of soft, almost you have to crank him up just to hear him kind of voice type of thing.
Jon yep
George um This song is… I guess it means a lot to me for a couple of reasons. Number one, it’s Phil Collins and it’s on this album and I love this album and I love Phil Collins. Number two, it was also in one of my favorite movies on one of my favorite movie soundtracks of all time, Color of Money.
George This song is one of the reasons why I pushed so hard for that ah movie soundtrack to be so high up when we did that top 10 list that…
Mo Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jon Because of this track? Uh-huh.
George had a lot of controversy. You know, but a lot of people were like color of money, but I was like, I don’t care.
Jon It’s fair.
George I’m throwing all my fucking beans at color of money. This song was one of the reasons it is beautiful. It’s melodic. It’s, it’s, It’s remorseful.
George It’s hopeful. It’s everything that Phil Collins seems to be as a lyricist and a singer all tied together in one song. And I think that may be one of the reasons why it hit number one, because this is not your typical number one U.S.
Jon it’s fair
George Billboard type of song, right? It’s not super flashy. It doesn’t have controversial lyrics at all.
Mo Good Mm-hmm.
Jon No.
George It’s just a really soft to Mo’s point balladeer type of song.
Jon It’s just damn good.
George It’s just…
Mo good one
Jon Yeah.
George it’s But it’s one of the more perfect examples of that style of singing and thought processing and emotions. I love everything about this song.
George ah There are other great songs on this album that we’re probably going to talk about in the next couple of points.
Jon to talk about. sh Yeah.
Mo he
George But for me, this song is definitely a reason to buy this album.
Mo Yeah, I couldn’t agree more, George. I mean, also, this seems to be like a song just made for Phil Collins’ voice.
George Mm-hmm.
Mo You know, it just seems like it was just…
Jon Sure. Yeah.
Mo yeah oh Of course, he wrote it, so I’m sure he made it for him. But, you know, it just seemed like it was just a perfect vehicle for his store.
Jon Right. It lends itself so well to his particular forte.
Mo Exactly.
Jon Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
George even though John doesn’t like it and he wants to whine and complain about
Jon No, no question.
Mo I know, John keeps about how much he hates this song.
Jon That’s not what I said. ah
Mo I can’t believe that.
George I mean, yeah, he is pleading up a little bit. Give me one more night. Give me just one more night. I get that he’s pleading, but there’s something to be said about a person who is trying so desperately to hold on to an emotion that may be keeping them afloat.
Jon Yeah.
George We talked about the songs about divorce and everything else. And, you know, the song spinning me inside out.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George This song is him trying to hold on before those desperate measures take place.
Jon Yeah.
George And I think that that is more courageous than almost any other song on the album, because if this song is is sung and written from a place of things that are going on in his life, imagine bearing your soul that way in this song as the writer and the singer for a person who never wanted to be the front man to begin with.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yeah, I get it.
Mo yeah
George So, yeah, fuck off.
Jon I understand your position. ah
George Yeah. All right, fine. Mr. I’ve got something better and this song’s not so great. What the hell do you want to champion?
Jon so Again, not exactly what I said, but if that’s what you heard, that’s okay. like
Jon Excuse me, swallowing spit.
George I choked him up.
Jon You did. Ugh. Ugh.
Jon Yeah. I probably, ah maybe I was the second to pick, but I got away with picking what is easily one of the favorite songs on this album. And it’s the title track, not the title track, the first track on the album, Susudio.
Jon And it just kicks off. It does so many things right for me. It’s the one that I’m going to champion. It kicks off the album really well. It lets you know what you’re in for. You have that drum loop. You have the horns that permeate this album in some form or fashion.
Mo Mm-hmm.
Jon It’s so upbeat. It’s so hopeful. And as much as I am kind of dogging on the, you know, longing relationship kind of thing, this is like the more enthusiastic version of that.
Jon You know, I’ve got to get closer, but I don’t know how. Give me a chance. Give me a sign. I’ll show her anytime. It’s I almost feel like I have mapped this song onto every crush I’ve ever had since I first heard it, you know.
Mo What?
Jon Cause it’s like, Oh my goodness, this is what, it’s such a great person. I want to get closer to, I’ll do anything to get closer. You know, it’s, and it’s so, it is not mournfully longing. It’s just hopeful. Like I can’t wait to find a way to to get on the inside with you and to understand what it’s like to be close to you.
Jon And it has, and it’s so positive and it’s so, and if you don’t listen to any of that, it’s just a damn good beat to dance to and to bop your head along to in the car. it’s just a great rock song that has layers under it that make me continue to enjoy it the more I listen to it. So that’s why I chose Susudio.
Mo Man, George, you’re right. There is some some deeper psychological issues here going on.
Jon There’s no, there’s you guys.
George Right?
George You know, honestly, John, if this song is the preamble to a relationship, then my song could be the epilogue.
Jon No doubt. Without a doubt.
George Maybe, maybe put the songs together that way.
Jon Certainly. Right.
George And maybe you’ll finally have a realistic appreciation of what I chose to champion because honestly, Susudio is one of the best songs.
Jon yeah
George i ever It was another number one hit.
Jon It’s great. Yeah, that’s right.
George It definitely deserved it. I get that it’s some nonsensical word, but when you’re trying to pursue a relationship, who isn’t out of their fucking mind.
Jon That’s okay. Who cares?
Jon Yeah, yeah.
Mo Yeah.
Jon I get tongue-tied trying to say your name.
George So for me, that fits.
Jon Why not? Sure.
George Yeah. Yeah.
Jon yep What was her name? Susan? Susudio? I don’t know. Something. I love her.
George Right.
Jon She’s great, right?
Mo ah ah like Maybe he’s stuttering.
George I don’t know.
Jon That’s right.
George I saw her on a train. I need to go get with her so that we can break up later and I can be begging for one more night.
Jon I’ve made up this crazy name just while I’m so i’m out there seeking you. Yeah. Okay. So mine’s Susudio. Mo, why don’t you go ahead and round us out. What is the track you’re going to champion from No Jacket Required?
Mo So my track is um Take Me Home. I mean, this is put out there.
Jon Okay.
George Hmm.
Mo And the reason why this is actually a little more story because my i bought this album recently.
Jon Mm-hmm.
George Yep.
Mo probably when it came out, you know, like early days of it coming out.
Jon and Okay.
Mo And Take Me Home was not an early hit on this album. You know, of fact, I think it was released as a single like way afterwards.
George No, no.
Mo And so and I oh yeah, and I always loved the song.
George A year later.
Mo i had a friend in college that we kind of bonded the fact that we both were like, this is the best song on the album. I’m like, yeah, I know. Nobody listens to it. You know, it’s not even on the radio.
Jon Nobody listens. and
Mo What the hell is wrong with people? you And then it releases a single but like much later, and then it was on the radio, you heard it everywhere. And then we’re like, we knew this before everybody else. like we We appreciate this damn song, and you guys are coming later.
Jon ah Vindicated.
Mo yeah You don’t know what you’re talking about. um and So that’s why I appreciate I say this is like one of my favorite songs on the album, and I’m champing it.
George You know, Mo, it’s funny that you say it that way because that’s the exact way I feel about Shameless from the Billy Joel Stormfront album that later become the mega hit for ah Garth Brooks or whatever the hell that cheating motherfucker’s name is from stealing Billy Joel’s awesome song.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yeah,
Mo yeah
Jon right.
Mo And you’re like,
George But still, i’ve I felt the same way. you You felt like you had this inside track on something that nobody else was really appreciating.
Mo yeah, we’re real fans.
George And then as soon as it hits, everybody’s like, oh, this is so awesome. And you’re like, fuck you.
Mo Yeah, I know exactly.
George I knew this ahead of time.
Jon You bandwagon jumper. yeah
George yeah
Mo You don’t appreciate it like I do.
Jon ah but
Jon You know what’s really interesting? We each championed as a different track and we each championed that track for a very different reason. Isn’t that interesting? Very different. read Not just, it’s my favorite song.
George Well, yeah.
Jon It’s like we have like some some ingrained reasons, the kind of history, and I think that’s really fascinating.
George Yeah.
Mo Yeah.
Jon Yeah.
George Yeah.
Jon Well, once again, whenever we do these, this album is going right back to the top of my rotation list. i I’ve been listening to it for a while.
Mo Yeah.
Jon And because of that, you know, YouTube music to start putting it in my super playlist I’m going to hear it. And I don’t care.
George Right. Right.
Jon I’m happy with that. That’s great. Guys, thank you for taking the time to walk through Phil Collins’ No Jacket Required 40th anniversary of this album. Once again, just got to remind you of that.
George oh
Jon I know listeners love to give us feedback on these. They enjoy these musical backtracks. I hope you guys enjoyed this one as much as we enjoyed going through it. Before we leave you, want to take a second to thank another brand new supporter over on Patreon.
Mo Oh, awesome.
Jon I want to send out a huge thank you from all three of us to Israel G. I’m sorry, Israel, I think is his name, to Israel G, who joined us on Patreon.
Mo oh awesome
Jon And again, it’s super simple. He just headed over to patreon.com slash Gen X Grown Up. fill that a little bit for as little as a dollar a month. You can be set up a recurring supportive contribution to make sure that Gen X grown up is able to keep doing what we do here on the podcast over on YouTube and on the website.
Jon We love you. Love you so much. Patrons in Israel. Thank you for joining and that squad. Could not be happier with you.
Mo Always
Jon That then is going to wrap it up for this backtrack edition of the Gen X Grown Up Podcast. But don’t worry. If you were worried, please don’t worry. We’ll be back in a couple of weeks with another one.
Mo fun, man.
Jon Next week is the standard edition of our show. Until then, I’m John. George, thank you so much for being here, man.
George Yes, sir.
Jon Mo, you know I appreciate you, brother.
Mo always he fun man
Jon Fourth listener, it’s you. We cannot wait to talk. It’s you. We appreciate it, Mo. Fourth listener, it is you. We all three appreciate Most of all, I cannot wait to talk to you again next time. Bye-bye.
George See you guys.
Mo Take care, everybody.
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About The Author

Mo As someone who barely manages to squeeze in as a GenXer my memories include more of the 70's than those younger GenXers. Reading and movies are my passions with some video gaming thrown in there for good measure!

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